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Enoughofthat
Average Member
United Kingdom
109 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Mar 2012 : 13:44:20
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This is a thread that collects into one place all information relating to the disused Musley School site and the campaign to bring it back into use by and for the community.
I will maintain the next post as a wiki. Please reply to this thread with new information to be added. Feel free to comment and point out errors, omissions and suggest improvements.
Admin - Wiki has been removed from the title.
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Edited by - Enoughofthat on 13 Mar 2012 16:08:38 |
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Enoughofthat
Average Member
United Kingdom
109 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2012 : 13:46:02
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Friends of Musley School.
- 1. History
- 1.1 State of Decay
http://troglurbex.blogspot.com/2011/03/musley-infants-school-ware-herts-march.html
- 1.2 Listed Building Status
quote:
Originally posted by spear
quote:
Originally posted by Cass
back to Musley...Why is there no law about unused buildings. It is such a waste, I have a horrible feeling it will be pulled down in time :(
There is -
5. REPAIRS
5.1 If a local authority consider that a listed building is not being properly preserved they may serve on the owner a 'repairs notice' under Section 115 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1971. This notice must specify the works which the authority consider reasonably necessary for the proper preservation of the building and explain that if it is not complied with within 2 months the authority may make a compulsory purchase order and submit it to the Secretary of State for confirmation. If the owner deliberately neglects the building in order to redevelop the site, the local authority may not only acquire the building, but may do so at a price which excludes the value of the site for redevelopment. If the building is unoccupied, the authority can serve a notice on the owner giving him 7 days' notice of their intention to carry out repairs which are urgently necessary to secure its preservation and recover the cost from the owner. These powers may also be exercised by the Secretary of State.
However the LA do not regard the condition of Musley as being bad enough to require their intervention - possibly because, following the land swop, it will be owned by... the council.
- 2. Interested Parties
- 2.1 Current owners
2.11 Ware Grammar School Endowment Fund Trust http://www.wareonline.co.uk/news/article.asp?id=901
2.12 Emanuel Shared Church
2.121 Withdrawn due to fund raising issues. Press release post 13 03 2012
quote:
Originally posted by spear
quote:
Originally posted by Cass
why wait for it to get bad? forgive me but I dont really understand and I think I speak for many! I just see and old building which used to be a perfectly good school just sit and ruin for 7 years. There have been many organisations that could have moved in within weeks of the school closing, but it seams to me that someone or a board of committee members said no. so now 7 years on and we are still arguing about it.
So far as I am aware no other organisation has shown any interest, (apart from Playsomething very recently) possibly because of the high (and escalating) cost of renovations.
Musley is owned by the Trustees of Ware Grammar (effectively Presdales), when the Trinity development was agreed a site had to be set aside for community use but they wanted to develop that too so it was agreed that they would swop Musley for that site which was not to be developed until the lease of Musley to a community group was signed (I believe it has been developed in spite of that condition)
Emmanuel agreed to take on the Musley site (and even got planning permission - optimistic lot) since then negotiations have dragged on.
Once things are concluded it will be owned by Herts CC and leased to Emmanuel - presumably any group who wants to use it can then do so.
- 2.2 Key Contacts and Responsible Public Figures
2.21Town Councillors for Trinity Ward
2.211 Cllr Ian Devonshire – 01920 466708 email:ian.devonshire(at)waretowncouncil.gov.uk
2.212 Cllr John Wing – 01920 469392 email: john.wing(at)waretowncouncil.gov.uk
2.213 Cllr Terence Milner – 01920 464020 email: terence.milner(at)waretowncouncil.gov.uk
2.22 East Herts Councillors for Trinity Ward
2.221 Cllr John Wing – 01920 469392 email: john.wing(at)eastherts.gov.uk
2.222 Cllr Malcolm Alexander – 01920 467687 email: Malcolm.alexander(at)eastherts.gov.uk
2.34 Local MP
2.25 Trustees of Ware Grammar spokesperson
2.25 HCC key contact
- 3. Suggested Uses
- 3.1 Community Centre
3.11 Art gallery
3.12 Cafe
3.13 Tool Library
3.14 Toy Library
- 3.2 Urban Farm
3.21 Local produce shop
3.22 Recycling and sustainability resource centre
3.23 Cultivation of veg in containers and mobile planters. http://foodfromthesky.org.uk/what-lives-on-the-roof/
- 3.3 Music School
- 3.4 Car park for local residents
- 3.5 Housing
Planning approval for two 3-bedroom houses on the site expires on 10th December this year. Both the 2006 and 2009 applications were submitted by The County Council.
http://online.eastherts.gov.uk/swiftlg/ImageTemp/111360-32308.pdf
- 4. Sources of Funding
4.1 Start Up Funding
4.11 Crowd funding
4.12 National Lottery
4.13 Local Authority Grant
4.14 Donations
- 4.2 Revenue
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Edited by - Enoughofthat on 24 Mar 2012 12:52:40 |
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steve
Moderator
United Kingdom
1350 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2012 : 16:44:07
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Please could someone clarify the ownership issue.
I understood the school was owned by the Ware Grammar School Endowment Fund Trust. Is this the same as the Presdales School Trustees or is this a separate organisation? The name and the fact that they are a charity suggest to me that they are not the same. Are School trusts usually charities and not part of the County Council, who are responsible for education. |
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Enoughofthat
Average Member
United Kingdom
109 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2012 : 16:50:03
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I found this from 18 months ago.
quote:
Originally posted by spear
The approval for the building of houses on the Trinity community land said:-
"In order, therefore, to meet the S106 obligations attached to the outline
planning permission in relation to the provision of community land the
County Council proposes to enter a land swap arrangement with the trustees
of Ware Grammar School for Girls who own the freehold of the vacant
Former Musley Infants School site on Musley Hill. The County Council
would then agree a long lease of at least 50 years for rent for the use of the
vacant school building and land for community purposes. The application
site would be transferred to the trustees of Ware Grammar School for Girls
and the Former Musley Infants School Site to Hertfordshire County Council."
and again:-
"The provision of existing land and buildings at Musley Infants School,
Musley Hill, Ware for community purposes via a 50 year lease with a
suitable body prior to the commencement of any residential
development on the site."
The interesting thing is that in response to a recent letter regarding the Council taking action over it's listed building status they said they didn't know who owned it.
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Enoughofthat
Average Member
United Kingdom
109 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2012 : 17:54:41
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| Councillors identified and email sent requesting their comments and contributions |
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Craig
Project Leader
United Kingdom
2312 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2012 : 18:05:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Enoughofthat
Councillors identified and email sent requesting their comments and contributions
A great idea EOT. I would suggest you post the letter to councillors in here too, so we can see what's been asked. |
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Enoughofthat
Average Member
United Kingdom
109 Posts |
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Craig
Project Leader
United Kingdom
2312 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2012 : 18:53:05
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I think that approach just isn't going to work.
The town councillors regard Ware Online (and the internet in general) as a place where they get 'flak' despite Ware Online being soley occupied by the electorate of Ware - see here. I doubt they will engage openly on a public forum.
It'll require a letter to each councillor outlining our concerns and with clear questions for them to answer.
Having said that, if any representative from the town council would like to join the online community of Ware in an official capacity representing the council, I will ensure the application is approved without delay. |
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JudieT
Senior Member
United Kingdom
612 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2012 : 19:14:03
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If No10 can have an online petition where they have to act if the number of people who sign up exceeds a certain limit - can't we have one where if enough people sign the petition then Ware Town Council have to take notice of what their electorate are saying?
From a quick google it seems fairly easy to do, but would require Moderator input/approval??
edited to add that I don't think 2.2 is valid anymore and should be removed if the church is no longer involved.
Sorry that should be 2.3 |
Edited by - JudieT on 04 Mar 2012 19:16:43 |
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steve
Moderator
United Kingdom
1350 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2012 : 19:18:11
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quote:
Originally posted by JudieT
If No10 can have an online petition where they have to act if the number of people who sign up exceeds a certain limit - can't we have one where if enough people sign the petition then Ware Town Council have to take notice of what their electorate are saying?
From a quick google it seems fairly easy to do, but would require Moderator input/approval??
The ePetition website is run by the government, who pledge to give parliamentary time to any petition that gets 10,000 signatures.
If you can convince Ware Town Council to make a similar undertaking I'd applaud you. |
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Enoughofthat
Average Member
United Kingdom
109 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2012 : 20:20:01
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Deleted 2.3 Church Consortium
I have sent a personal private email to the councillors Alexander and Milner asking them to take an interest and to contact me directly if they prefer.
Perhaps others will also make contact directly and respectfully, particularly those who live and vote in the ward. |
Edited by - Enoughofthat on 04 Mar 2012 20:44:27 |
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Damo5
WoLFer
United Kingdom
361 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2012 : 22:43:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Enoughofthat
Deleted 2.3 Church Consortium
I have sent a personal private email to the councillors Alexander and Milner asking them to take an interest and to contact me directly if they prefer.
Perhaps others will also make contact directly and respectfully, particularly those who live and vote in the ward.
Might be a bit harsh as the Church might be willing to be part of a group, even if not willing to take the whole thing on themselves.
Might be best to contact them and see what their position is; and as they have done quite a lot of work on this understand why they backed out and what the costs involved might be.
Should anyone wish to see what the challenge of restoring, let alone converting the building might involve have a look here http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=59339
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Scottman
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1757 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2012 : 09:19:46
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| On the principle of beginning with the end in view, a lot of your support will be generated by what you decide the building should be used for .... Is it possible to focus on the most agreeable, likely use and work from that ? |
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JudieT
Senior Member
United Kingdom
612 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2012 : 10:20:07
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I agree Scotman, but how do we decide on what the building/site will be used for unless we canvas the community? Without some coming together of interested parties to formulate a short list of possibilities I don't see how we can do this. I'm willing to walk around leafleting and to coordinate responses, but would suggest that a core group needs to come up with a list of options.
Some initial research suggests to me that funding grants are available from a variety of places both for community gardens and for building preservation/restoration, especially where there is a real educational benefit to the local community and personally I think this is where we should focus our attention.
I don't believe creating a 'community centre' where lots of people gather is a good use of the building or site as it is in a difficult position for parking and access. A place where people go at different times of the day and not necessarily all at the same time would be much easier to accommodate on the site and that is why my preferred option is not to include the church. |
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steve
Moderator
United Kingdom
1350 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2012 : 10:56:17
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It doesn't really matter what the community wants if the owners are so reluctant to engage with anyone.
I'm sorry to sound negative but the costs and practicalities of bringing this building back into use are probably beyond the community, not least because the community doesn't own it. We need to put pressure on the owners to fulfil their responsibilities and either maintain the building or sell it. I really can't imagine what benefit there is for them in letting this asset crumble. |
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Enoughofthat
Average Member
United Kingdom
109 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2012 : 11:48:52
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Edits
2.11 updated with source
2.12 Re Added Emanuel Shared Church as an interested party. Should be included as reading the threads best information is that this proposal is on hold rather than withdrawn.
3.4 added again keeps disappearing.
Future edits I will try to add sources either links or dates of thread posts.
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Enoughofthat
Average Member
United Kingdom
109 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2012 : 12:03:05
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Although the ware grammar trustees and HCC are not the most forthcoming of communicators, the fact that the Emanuel Shared Churches got to an advanced staged must mean that there is a willingness on there parts to see the site brought back into use.
Reading back through previous postings, it seems that Emanuel paused because of a combination of internal matters and possibly the cost of maintaining the building.
As this bid seems to have overcome all other obstacles it would be useful if someone can find out directly from them what the true facts were/are. it makes sense that their experience and knowledge would be helpful to any other proposal groups.
So the next step as i see it is identifying the key contact in the Emanuel Shared Church. Does anyone know?
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Enoughofthat
Average Member
United Kingdom
109 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2012 : 12:10:33
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A quick google and I've found their website
http://www.emmanuelsharedchurch.org.uk/about.htm
Contact: Steve Rogers (leader) - 01920 426617 - steverogers.escware(at)ntlworld.com
I will send an email an ask for the latest info.
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JillR
Town Clerk
United Kingdom
4 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2012 : 15:40:21
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I have been reading these threads with interest. The Town Council shares the community's concerns about the deteriorating condition of Musley School. It is East Herts Council, as the planning authority, who has the power to take enforcment action in these cases.
I have made Town Councillors aware of the comments here but if you would like to contact the Town Council please email me at info(at)waretowncouncil.gov.uk I can then forward it to councillors and raise the issue at the most appropriate Town Council meeting.
Jill Rowlinson, Town Clerk. |
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