Topic ID 6567
Everyone please read and share if possible. An incident happened in Ware yesterday morning involving my friends daughter. At 8:45 am yesterday morning on the PRIORY BRIDGE, her daughter and her friend were taken by surprise from behind by a MAN who grabbed her daughter's friend around the middle and swept her from her feet running at some speed towards WARE PRIORY CAR PARK. This happened surrounded by several parents. Luckily he dropped the girl & is believed to have ran through the car park, although this has not been confirmed. The description of this man is of oriental appearance, tall, slim and athletic build, possibly middle aged. PLEASE Herts Constabulary are investigating this matter with a high degree of concern.
Reply ID 74461
I've seen a big debate on facebook as to whether this is true. Why is there nothing on the Herts & Ware police twitter feed?
Reply ID 74462
I saw this on Facebook too! nothing on Herts Police website about it either
Reply ID 74463
The MErcury has it up now: http://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/News/Possible-attempted-child-abduction-near-Sacred-Heart-School-in-Ware-under-investigation-20130913122100.htm It must be said the Police take is more investigative and they seem to be unsure whether it was an attempted abduction. But people should still take care.
Reply ID 74464
Are there any known instances of children being abducted in front of their parents?
Reply ID 74465
The story is true and the school and police are not coming out of this well so far. The school has pretty much denied the event took place, which (along with apparent inaction and poor attitude from plod) has resulted in some pretty angry views being put out. My son started sacred heart this week. Communication to us has been poor. I should point out that the view of the school and police seems to be that this is a misunderstanding and a storm in a teacup. The view if eye witnesses is somewhat different. Either way - this has been poorly handled so far.
Reply ID 74466
Can't say the facebook source seemed the most reliable. LOTS OF CAPITALS FOR DRAMATIC EFFECT. And its then veered off into mass hysteria about the school's response. It sounds like what it is a bizarre event, but not a child abduction. The police statement seems to back that up.
Reply ID 74467
If there were parents around why didn't someone tackle him?
Reply ID 74468
New Boy - whilst I agree, an incident has happened. My concern is that the school has sent home a note saying that there was no attempted abduction. They seem more confident than the police and witnesses. I know the head is trying to avoid a rumour mill, but she seems to have created just that.
Reply ID 74470
I'm in agreement with New Boy; the various accounts on Facebook seem to just jump to 'extreme' conclusions and the schools/police account seem to be that, whilst it IS a serious incident, we shouldn't blow it out of propotion and shouldn't induce a state of panic. I'm curious to know from any parents involved (in particular those who are questioning the schools and police's responce) exactly what they wanted to happen? pitch forks and torches? I'm also curious to know if it happened inside of school time or not? Were the children alone? why where they not being walked to their playground/classroom? Surely, if it did happen outside of school time/premises then the school haven't got a call to answer anyway; it's the parent's responsibility to take their child to and from school?
Reply ID 74471
Mr_rense - the story is out there so I won't re-iterate it, but the main witness (ie the person who was responsible for the girl) is pretty adamant that this is not being taken seriously (some pretty shameful pcso quotes if true). My issue is the note we have been sent. The school seem to have resolved the issue (which was outside the school grounds) whereas everyone else seems to think there is something to look into here. Not suggesting anything untoward. Just poor judgement in my book.
Reply ID 74473
Ok well there's a quote published on the website of the local paper (I dare say there will be something written about it next week's paper edition also) from Cheif Inspector Gerry McDonald which states "I am treating this as a serious incident, and as if it was one of my own kids it happened to." so it sounds like, to me, they are taking it seriously. Again, what do the parents want/expect the school to do? It wasn't on school grounds, it wasn't in school time, the school were not responsible for the girls at the time....I KNOW it's an incredible scary thing to happen but to go around waving fingers at everybody isn't going to help.
Reply ID 74474
Perhaps you could reiterate what the letter sent home from the school says?
Reply ID 74475
Extract: "At 9am (12/09/13) reports were made that a man had grabbed a child on the bridge near to the school. The child was with her mother at the time. Officers were in attendance and made enquiries and can confirm that no attempted abduction has taken place, and the child was not injured". It then goes on to confirm that the matter is being fully investigated.
Reply ID 74476
This is giving me confusing messages, either it's 'a serious incident and if it was one of my kids it happened to' as above OR it's 'Officers were in attendance and can confirm no attempted abduction has taken place and the child was not injured'. These two statements appear to contradict each other or were they made at different times?
Reply ID 74477
Matt40 - which is my point. I should point out, I am in no way criticising how the matter is being handled or investigated (as I am not in the know). Just that the police and school are not coming across well.
Reply ID 74478
Hillsider, I would have to agree with you that the messages being sent out by the school and the Police are extremely confusing, it makes it very hard to understand what has happened. The reaction from parents who were present seems much stronger than from either official source, which adds to the confusion if they are not being taken seriously by Police and school. It is certainly a matter for discussion and concern at other schools in town.
Reply ID 74480
I think, even speaking as a parent of young children, that hysteria is in danger of engulfing the facts now having seen it swamp facebook!
Reply ID 74481
quote:No argument here.
Originally posted by Matt40
I think, even speaking as a parent of young children, that hysteria is in danger of engulfing the facts now having seen it swamp facebook!
Reply ID 74483
Tweet posted by Herts Police (at)HertfordPolice: Police ask that there is caution around some social media which does not report the same account as given by the child, family or witnesses Maybe we should all take note. This may well be a serious incident or may have become the social media equivalent of office talk that escalates with everyone adding a small element. Just take care, that what is being posted is valid, as these things can very quickly escalate and helps nobody, least of all the child or their family. Lets hope this is resolved quickly in whatever way is appropriate
Reply ID 74484
quote:Rather than an extract you've chosen, please can we have the full letter so we can see the passage you've reproduced in context? This is how misinformation circulates - by people selecting bits of information (and excluding bits that THEY think are irrelevant), embellishing them, repeating them out of context and/or stating rumour as facts. For instance, what evidence is there that it was an attempted abduction? If it was an attempted abduction, it would only have failed if something or someone had prevented the abduction.
Originally posted by Hillsider
Extract: "At 9am (12/09/13) reports were made that a man had grabbed a child on the bridge near to the school. The child was with her mother at the time. Officers were in attendance and made enquiries and can confirm that no attempted abduction has taken place, and the child was not injured". It then goes on to confirm that the matter is being fully investigated.
Reply ID 74486
Steve - my intention on this thread was to confirm there had been incident and then to comment on info supplied. I have no agenda, nor any will to spread misinformation. I hope the matter is resolved quickly and correctly. For the record - sacred heart is a fantastic school. I am not out to undermine or unduly criticise anyone. Any issues I have I will look to raise constructively with the school.
Reply ID 74505
Wow, could we look any more like the scared-of-strangers carrot-crunching tractor boy 3-thumbed inbreds that earn the disdain of the county town? I hail from the North East of England and am reminded of the good burghers of Hartlepool who hung a monkey during the Napoleonic wars, on suspicion that he was a French spy. I'm appalled by the idiotic hysteria on FB. The media coverage (including this thread) of this alleged incident does Ware no favours.
Reply ID 74522
http://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/News/BREAKING-Man-arrested-after-alleged-child-abduction-attempt-20130916154340.htm The Mercury is reporting that a man has been arrested after another incident with a child this morning. No details were given but they confirmed a possible link to the Sacred heart incident.
Reply ID 74526
Idiotic hysteria is it??? I hope he gets all he deserves.
Reply ID 74528
Not sure about idiotic hysteria but the incident by the school was blown out of all proportion.
Reply ID 74531
I note some of the FB stuff I saw has been taken down. I can't see any update on the Herts police website, could anyone post a link please?
Reply ID 74540
Is it possible to confirm something that's possible? Confirmation of a maybe? Sounds about right for the Mercury.
Reply ID 74542
quote:Do you have information that the rest of us don't have? For instance, what he's been arrested for? Has he actually been charged with any offence?
Originally posted by Saffron
Idiotic hysteria is it??? I hope he gets all he deserves.
Reply ID 74544
I have been extremely confused by the communications on this one. The school have tried to play it down. Clearly parents were extremely upset. The lack of any proper communication from the Police has been especially confusing - managing to get across both that it was a serious incident and that nothing had really happened. I appreciate that management of messages in the digital age is very hard because of the speed that a community can spread its own messages, but Police and school needed to do much, much better. And still do. Ware as a whole needs at least a basic understanding of what it is thought happened. Just having some simple information would calm things down.
Reply ID 74545
The school played down the incident as it involved an adult picking up a child and moving them out of the way. While upsetting for the child and in no way the correct behaviour it was hardly an abduction attempt and not helped by parent/parents reporting it to The Mercury! How this connects to the incident yesterday I have no idea and hopefully the facts will become apparent in time.
Reply ID 74546
If that was the case then a simple statement to that effect would have been very useful. This was not the message that was put out by parent witnesses. And the first Police statement - that that the incident would be treated as a threat to the Police officer's own children - made things worse. The rumours have spread round another schools and parents have become extremely concerned. This is why I say a simple statement of fact was necessary, and quickly.
Reply ID 74547
A man has now been charged http://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/Hertfordshire/BREAKING-Man-charged-with-attempted-child-abduction-20130917103119.htm
Reply ID 74548
quote:The chap arrested has a very detailed criminal history of precisely this type of crime.
Originally posted by steve
A man has now been charged http://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/Hertfordshire/BREAKING-Man-charged-with-attempted-child-abduction-20130917103119.htm
Reply ID 74550
quote:Can I ask how you know this?
Originally posted by malcmacquote:The chap arrested has a very detailed criminal history of precisely this type of crime.
Originally posted by steve
A man has now been charged http://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/Hertfordshire/BREAKING-Man-charged-with-attempted-child-abduction-20130917103119.htm
Reply ID 74551
Google his name and read the BBC news report.
Reply ID 74554
So now I come back to my concern about the information sent out. Why did the school play this down? Why did the Police say it was serious, and at the same time say it wasn't serious? School and Police need to do better.
Reply ID 74555
quote:It's just gone online. http://www.herts.police.uk/hertfordshire_constabulary/latest_news/news_articles/170913_-_0694.aspx
Originally posted by Surfer Rosa
I can't see any update on the Herts police website, could anyone post a link please?
Reply ID 74556
I've changed the topic title to relate more with the discussion. Changed from PLEASE BE AWARE to Beware: Attempted abduction in Ware
Reply ID 74558
Sounds like it isn't his first time: [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3141803.stm[/url]
Reply ID 74560
Obvisouly this guy is innocent until proven guilty of this current alleged crime, but regarding his previous crimes, this is a rather chilling view of the road he seems to be living in...expecially if you are a parent also living in this vicinity. [url][/url]https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Gladstone+Rd,+Ware,+Hertfordshire+SG12,+United+Kingdom&hl=en&ll=51.87657,-0.059974&spn=0.010452,0.01929&sll=51.41697,-0.201834&sspn=0.010558,0.01929&geocode=FR-gFgMdXXX__w&hnear=Gladstone+Rd,+Dane+End,+Ware+SG12+0NH,+United+Kingdom&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=51.877365,-0.061253&panoid=Q5wvZhCHempCDdT3V1Vu5Q&cbp=12,62.77,,0,0.6
Reply ID 74561
Parents should be made aware that people like him live in our town. I appreciate the need to prevent vigilantism etc but not knowing that this 'type' of person lives 3 roads away makes me feel queasy, parents need more information. Good job he's caught now as it could have been any of our kids.
Reply ID 74562
malcmac - I would suggest that you have the wrong Gladstone Road in that link. FB
Reply ID 74565
Bit of a shock as it literally happened across the road from me.
Reply ID 74567
quote:You could wel be right. I've lived in Ware for 12 years, but I still don't know all the roads too well. Sorry, if I alarmed anyone I shouldn't have.
Originally posted by FurtiveBertie
malcmac - I would suggest that you have the wrong Gladstone Road in that link. FB
Reply ID 74569
Gladstone road, ware has had its fair share of bad news the last year, feel sorry for the decent folk there.
Reply ID 74570
That was Dane End Malcmalc!! Gladstone Rd is off the bottom end of the Watton Rd.
Reply ID 74571
quote:Blame S Brin at google!!!
Originally posted by mb1
That was Dane End Malcmalc!! Gladstone Rd is off the bottom end of the Watton Rd.
Reply ID 74572
It's true malcmalc, I went and looked on google maps and it did refuse to even acknowledge the existence of the Gladstone Road that is in Ware. I only knew that the other is Dane End as i lived there for a while.
Reply ID 74577
quote:Recent police study puts a conservative estimate of 250,000 paedophiles in the UK - that's 1 in every 200 adults - so there are quite a few living near you Matt - I'm not sure you'd sleep any better at night if you knew who they were. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1379946/UK-has-250000-paedophiles-says-police-study.html
Originally posted by Matt40
Parents should be made aware that people like him live in our town. I appreciate the need to prevent vigilantism etc but not knowing that this 'type' of person lives 3 roads away makes me feel queasy, parents need more information. Good job he's caught now as it could have been any of our kids.
Reply ID 74578
quote:Det Chief Insp Bob McLachlan, the head of the Yard's paedophile unit, ... sees them as a "conservative estimate".
Originally posted by tonyappleton
Recent police study puts a conservative estimate of 250,000 paedophiles in the UK - that's 1 in every 200 adults - so there are quite a few living near you Matt - I'm not sure you'd sleep any better at night if you knew who they were. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1379946/UK-has-250000-paedophiles-says-police-study.html
Reply ID 74579
In 2000 a group of vigilantes in South Wales decided to vandalise the home of a local paedophile, and managed to attack a paediatrician's home instead. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/901723.stm) Vigilante action is never helpful. When we lived in the US we had access through a website to the approximate location of every sex offender living in the area. Wherever you searched on the map, there were plenty. It was a)useless as a guide of where to live to be away from such people, and b)generally encouraged fear and hysteria. Sex offenders are encouraged to duck out on parole and live in hiding, which makes them much more likely to offend again. it isn;t a good system. These matters are generally better left to due process of law.
Reply ID 74581
quote:That report is utter rubbish and should be removed from the website as it is scaremongering in the extreme. If you look at the figures statistically you can't draw that conclusion, not least because the paper even says itself the figures simply do not exist. As ever, journalists "never let facts get in the way of a good story" [:(]
Originally posted by tonyappleton Recent police study puts a conservative estimate of 250,000 paedophiles in the UK - that's 1 in every 200 adults - so there are quite a few living near you Matt - I'm not sure you'd sleep any better at night if you knew who they were. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1379946/UK-has-250000-paedophiles-says-police-study.html
Reply ID 74583
quote:Mr McLachlan has produced figures that show there are now at least 250,000 paedophiles, including those with no convictions. ... and who may never be convicted, or even commit a crime. I could be wrong here, but having a sexual interest in prepubescent children isn't actually a crime. Committing sexual assaults against children (or images showing it) however is. I might lust after my neighbour's wife but that doesn't mean I'm going to force myself on her. #minorityreport
Originally posted by ian.ball
That report is utter rubbish and should be removed from the website as it is scaremongering in the extreme. If you look at the figures statistically you can't draw that conclusion, not least because the paper even says itself the figures simply do not exist. As ever, journalists "never let facts get in the way of a good story" [:(]
Reply ID 74586
I held off posting anything on this topic earlier in the week...to all those people that made posters on this forum look like the villain, I hope you are ashamed. If posting something on sites like this prevents others from potentially getting abducted then super...please the guy has been caught, and as a parent of 2 very young children in ware, thank you for those that brought the warning out.
Reply ID 74588
quote:Putting this link on here is totally irresponsible. It should be taken down immediately. A person has been arrested in connection with a serious crime of which he may be guilty of or may be innocent of. I don't know but I do believe that it is up to a jury to decide this persons fate and not some pitch-fork carrying vigilantes. Can he get. A fair trial? Bigbloke please let WOL know. MB1 is correct in pointing out the stupidity of people who read the News of the World and couldn't tell the difference between a doctor and an abuser.
Originally posted by naga
Sounds like it isn't his first time: [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3141803.stm[/url]
Reply ID 74592
IGS, i agree with you to a point but if he had been allowed out before trial then I reckon that'd be info worth knowing as a parent around the corner from him.
Reply ID 74594
IGL: I was just pointing out that it wasn't the first time he got arrested for such a crime. This information is in the public domain afterall. Not sure why this is irresponsible, the Media released his name! I am not saying that he is guilty of this new crime, that'll be down to a Jury if it goes that far.
Reply ID 74599
quote:Laughable...utterly laughable
Originally posted by IGSquote:Putting this link on here is totally irresponsible. It should be taken down immediately. A person has been arrested in connection with a serious crime of which he may be guilty of or may be innocent of. I don't know but I do believe that it is up to a jury to decide this persons fate and not some pitch-fork carrying vigilantes. Can he get. A fair trial? Bigbloke please let WOL know. MB1 is correct in pointing out the stupidity of people who read the News of the World and couldn't tell the difference between a doctor and an abuser.
Originally posted by naga
Sounds like it isn't his first time: [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3141803.stm[/url]
Reply ID 74603
Having had a chat with our son's primary head this morning I am really ****ed off with the Police. They failed to contact her despite repeated requests at the end of last week. She had to get the false information from the Police via the head of Sacred Heart that nothing had happened and don;t scare the children. While I understand that a warning that there was an ongoing operation and a pervert at large could have scared him off, at least an acknowledgement that there had been an incident, it was being investigated and that parents should be warned to be careful would have been appropriate in the circumstances - something measured, low key but useful to parents nonetheless. But to pass along outright lies is absolutely unconscionable.
Reply ID 74607
I have to say I don't feel the police handled this well at all. I understand they don't want to cause panic in the streets; nor prejudice an investigation or chances of an eventual conviction. But they should have used their media outlets and social networks to better inform. It would have been perfectly acceptable to say they were investigating a possible incident, there would be higher police visibility in the town; and that all parents should be extra-vigilant. Instead we got quite a dismissive tone. We've always known their resources are strained across East Herts, which is why you use the media/social networks to reach a wide audience.