My heart goes out to anyone trying to work in the NHS at the moment Mancunian, I went through similar pain in the private sector when I was working, but also had the luxury of taking my services elsewhere which is not an option for so many within the health service. The unions seem to have lost their way and have no influence over those with the purse strings. And to my mind, those people with the purse strings are only paying those that don't have vocational but administrative jobs within the service.
There is no easy answer, there's been too many years of mis-management and it's too easy to jump on a soapbox and decry a failing service without looking at the root causes and that's what all our politicians and media moguls seem to do best.
Local NHS Crisis
Re: Local NHS Crisis
Its not that complex a problem.
The Tories don't want an NHS. it goes against their free market views.
Its no accident the current situation has developed. Starve the NHS of funds, Increase the pressure to do more with less.
It has to fail. And when it does then the private sector will be there to pick up the pieces.
It will end up costing more as it so often does when there has to be a profit center and shareholders.
And the State will likely be spending as much if not more. But it won't be state controlled.
The options for what to do have always been limited but we had our say in the last vote and this is the outcome.
The Tories don't want an NHS. it goes against their free market views.
Its no accident the current situation has developed. Starve the NHS of funds, Increase the pressure to do more with less.
It has to fail. And when it does then the private sector will be there to pick up the pieces.
It will end up costing more as it so often does when there has to be a profit center and shareholders.
And the State will likely be spending as much if not more. But it won't be state controlled.
The options for what to do have always been limited but we had our say in the last vote and this is the outcome.
Re: Local NHS Crisis
It's statements like this
One of the many reasons I did not vote Labour is the constant evangelical praising of the NHS as if it were some perfect organisation being run by Saint's who can't be questioned.
As a taxpayer, I want good public services, but I don't want my hard earned tax being thrown around and wasted.
You will always get waste in very large organisations, the trick it to minimise it as much as possible, refusing to allow any change on idealogical grounds will result in failure.
In fact the Labour Party is an almost perfect demonstration of how the NHS could evolve if allowed to. Inward looking nostalgists who scream louder and louder in a small hall of mirrors who can't adapt to how the world is changing around them.
That resulted in thisPat-H wrote: The Tories don't want an NHS.
I voted Conservative at the last election and I certainly do want an NHS.Pat-H wrote: The options for what to do have always been limited but we had our say in the last vote and this is the outcome.
One of the many reasons I did not vote Labour is the constant evangelical praising of the NHS as if it were some perfect organisation being run by Saint's who can't be questioned.
As a taxpayer, I want good public services, but I don't want my hard earned tax being thrown around and wasted.
You will always get waste in very large organisations, the trick it to minimise it as much as possible, refusing to allow any change on idealogical grounds will result in failure.
In fact the Labour Party is an almost perfect demonstration of how the NHS could evolve if allowed to. Inward looking nostalgists who scream louder and louder in a small hall of mirrors who can't adapt to how the world is changing around them.
Re: Local NHS Crisis
Leaving the political wrangling and mudslinging aside [PLEASE!!] - we are in trouble with local NHS GPs already. The increase in provision of Nursing Homes plus the extra house building, soon to be vastly increased in this area, has not been matched with an increase in number of GPs. My husband has just tried to book an appointment for a routine check-up that he has to have every 6 months and cannot get an appointment. They are fully booked for the next two weeks and he has been told to phone every morning at 8am and keep trying until he can get through to see if any further appointments have been released and are still available. There is a similar problem with dentists - a friend who has moved back to the area has been trying to find anyone who can take her family - every dental surgery she has tried have told her they are full and taking no more new patients.
Re: Local NHS Crisis
Scottman asked a good question. How would we fund the NHS we want. We have to recognise that it is tremendously good value for money. In 2012 in an international survey of healthcare costs we came in quite low, spending almost $3500 per person. The US in contrast spends just below $9000 per person and 10% of their population aren't even covered.
How we raise the money is part of a broader set of questions about what kind of society we want. Are we prepared to pay the tax and NI rates necessary to fully fund the NHS and the other public services we rely on. If we are, then an increase of 1% of income tax at all levels would raise £5.5bn a year, which would plug the current gap in the NS and social care funding too. And do so in a sustainable way. However, that wouldn't allow for the ageing population, changing medical practice etc which will continue to drive costs up. The government has already said it can find £8bn per year more by the end of the Parliament, so that's good and would also make a huge difference. Then we'd need to look to the future. I'd be willing to pay a small amount more income tax to prevent the NHS going bust. Anyone else?
as to the political football aspect of this, to a certain extent it's unavoidable. Labour fully funded the NHS but at the same time failed to invest properly in hospitals etc and loaded far more debt into the system through the incredibly expensive and unsustainable PFI building projects. The Coalition subjected the NHS to a real terms 20% cut in needed funding, by flatlining spending for five years, something the current Tory government hasn;t yet rectified, although it says it will. The result is a terrible crisis that. So while it is wrong to say 'tories' don;t support the NHS, the Tory government most certainly does not at the moment, and has failed to properly support it for the past five years in coalition.
How we raise the money is part of a broader set of questions about what kind of society we want. Are we prepared to pay the tax and NI rates necessary to fully fund the NHS and the other public services we rely on. If we are, then an increase of 1% of income tax at all levels would raise £5.5bn a year, which would plug the current gap in the NS and social care funding too. And do so in a sustainable way. However, that wouldn't allow for the ageing population, changing medical practice etc which will continue to drive costs up. The government has already said it can find £8bn per year more by the end of the Parliament, so that's good and would also make a huge difference. Then we'd need to look to the future. I'd be willing to pay a small amount more income tax to prevent the NHS going bust. Anyone else?
as to the political football aspect of this, to a certain extent it's unavoidable. Labour fully funded the NHS but at the same time failed to invest properly in hospitals etc and loaded far more debt into the system through the incredibly expensive and unsustainable PFI building projects. The Coalition subjected the NHS to a real terms 20% cut in needed funding, by flatlining spending for five years, something the current Tory government hasn;t yet rectified, although it says it will. The result is a terrible crisis that. So while it is wrong to say 'tories' don;t support the NHS, the Tory government most certainly does not at the moment, and has failed to properly support it for the past five years in coalition.
Re: Local NHS Crisis
That is a very interesting post mb1 and you raise some quite valid points.
However, before we go spending more taxpayers money before cutting waste in the NHS please all open this link below and don't just dismiss it, actually watch it tick for for even 10 seconds.
It is terrifying. If this country doesn't sort itself out and plan for bad times (that are coming financially) then the current bleating about "Tory cuts" will look like a walk in the park.
http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/
However, before we go spending more taxpayers money before cutting waste in the NHS please all open this link below and don't just dismiss it, actually watch it tick for for even 10 seconds.
It is terrifying. If this country doesn't sort itself out and plan for bad times (that are coming financially) then the current bleating about "Tory cuts" will look like a walk in the park.
http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/
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The Masked Woler
- Posts: 344
- Joined: Wed 08 Jan 2014 11:52 am
Re: Local NHS Crisis
I wanted a appointment on Sunday pm - got one for Wed morning and could have chosen from quite a number.Aardvaark wrote:Leaving the political wrangling and mudslinging aside [PLEASE!!] - we are in trouble with local NHS GPs already. The increase in provision of Nursing Homes plus the extra house building, soon to be vastly increased in this area, has not been matched with an increase in number of GPs. My husband has just tried to book an appointment for a routine check-up that he has to have every 6 months and cannot get an appointment. They are fully booked for the next two weeks and he has been told to phone every morning at 8am and keep trying until he can get through to see if any further appointments have been released and are still available. There is a similar problem with dentists - a friend who has moved back to the area has been trying to find anyone who can take her family - every dental surgery she has tried have told her they are full and taking no more new patients.
The issue over surgeries and dentists etc is surely more to do with the council though - wasn't Ermine Court supposed to have some medical facilities as part of the planning permission and as soon as it was built EHDC allowed the developers to convert those units into more flats.
We hear that GPs can't find premises but there are empty places in town (Edwards for one or one of the empty pubs or the old cimema)
I'm sure the District Plan will have adequate health provision, along with schools, leisure and the arts.
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The Masked Woler
- Posts: 344
- Joined: Wed 08 Jan 2014 11:52 am
Re: Local NHS Crisis
Only those pieces it wants and can profit from I think. But then it already has most of those.Pat-H wrote: It has to fail. And when it does then the private sector will be there to pick up the pieces.
Re: Local NHS Crisis
Thanks mb1 in particular.
In response - yes I would cheerfully pay another 1% on all my earnings to support the NHS. That said, like another response I would dearly like a government and revenue service that taxed companies on their UK profits here in the UK, and one that would think to itself 'you know what, we can't afford Trident while our NHS is falling apart, our care system is crushed almost to exhaustion and we have an older and ageing population in need'. I would like this country to be hospitable to migrants from terror and persecution. I would like a lot of things, most of which are rational choices within a balanced budget and not requiring any extra taxation.
But nowhere do I find any political party making these points, consistently and meaningfully, without coalescing it with a load of separate claptrap about spending our way out of debt or cutting essential welfare support for those in genuine need to the point of indignity.
In response - yes I would cheerfully pay another 1% on all my earnings to support the NHS. That said, like another response I would dearly like a government and revenue service that taxed companies on their UK profits here in the UK, and one that would think to itself 'you know what, we can't afford Trident while our NHS is falling apart, our care system is crushed almost to exhaustion and we have an older and ageing population in need'. I would like this country to be hospitable to migrants from terror and persecution. I would like a lot of things, most of which are rational choices within a balanced budget and not requiring any extra taxation.
But nowhere do I find any political party making these points, consistently and meaningfully, without coalescing it with a load of separate claptrap about spending our way out of debt or cutting essential welfare support for those in genuine need to the point of indignity.
Re: Local NHS Crisis
Scary stuff ...
Three in four NHS hospitals are failing, says watchdog
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/119 ... chdog.html
Three in four NHS hospitals are failing, says watchdog
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/119 ... chdog.html