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Re: Waitrose
Posted: Tue 02 Dec 2014 6:12 pm
by Steve
Scouter wrote:The Masked Woler wrote:This bit is bizarre
"the submission highlights high levels of impact on key town centre stores, particularly Tesco in Ware, Waitrose in Hertford and Sainsbury‟s in Hoddesdon. Indeed the ongoing viability of the Tesco and Sainsbury‟s stores could be undermined."
No mention of the Sainsburys in Hertford/Ware or ASDA (which they have recently given permission for) surely they will impact far more on Tesco than Waitrose
I wonder if any consideration was given to the Hertford Waitrose when a large Sainsbury's was built within spitting distance, to go with the very large Waitrose and M & S convenience?
Again, missing the point. This is about the threat posed by
out-of-town stores to those already existing in town centres, and by extension, to town centres themselves.
Re: Waitrose
Posted: Tue 02 Dec 2014 6:33 pm
by The Masked Woler
" They've only mentioned stores which could be particularly impacted, which doesn't mean that others no mentioned won't be. "
You miss the point, it wasn't that they will be impacted but rather that they will have a much larger impact on those named than any Waitrose.
A Waitrose at VH will not affect Ware Tesco because ASDA and Sainsbury will already have closed it.
Re: Waitrose
Posted: Wed 03 Dec 2014 6:57 am
by Scouter
Steve wrote:Scouter wrote:The Masked Woler wrote:This bit is bizarre
"the submission highlights high levels of impact on key town centre stores, particularly Tesco in Ware, Waitrose in Hertford and Sainsbury‟s in Hoddesdon. Indeed the ongoing viability of the Tesco and Sainsbury‟s stores could be undermined."
No mention of the Sainsburys in Hertford/Ware or ASDA (which they have recently given permission for) surely they will impact far more on Tesco than Waitrose
I wonder if any consideration was given to the Hertford Waitrose when a large Sainsbury's was built within spitting distance, to go with the very large Waitrose and M & S convenience?
Again, missing the point. This is about the threat posed by
out-of-town stores to those already existing in town centres, and by extension, to town centres themselves.
Correct Van Hage is out of town but Tesco and Sainsbury's in Hertford are hardly town centre...As the Waitrose is.
Re: Waitrose
Posted: Wed 03 Dec 2014 1:04 pm
by Ian
Steve wrote:The Masked Woler wrote:This bit is bizarre
"the submission highlights high levels of impact on key town centre stores, particularly Tesco in Ware, Waitrose in Hertford and Sainsbury‟s in Hoddesdon. Indeed the ongoing viability of the Tesco and Sainsbury‟s stores could be undermined."
No mention of the Sainsburys in Hertford/Ware or ASDA (which they have recently given permission for) surely they will impact far more on Tesco than Waitrose - I will be very surprised if Ware Tesco survives. Also no mention of Hertford Tesco.
They also happily granted permission for the new Morrisons in Hoddesdon (which isn't mentioned either)
Is the ommission of all the stores for which they have recently given permission an admission that to do so rather shoots their reasoning down?
There's no mention of Sainsbury's in Hertford or Ware, or Asda in Ware, because they are not out-of-town stores. The comments are specifically about how an out-of-town store could potentially draw custom away from town centres. They've only mentioned stores which could be
particularly impacted, which doesn't mean that others no mentioned won't be.
Agreed about Sainsburys - just about, though I do wonder how many people go into Hertford when they shop at Sainsburys - but I'm far from convinced by Asda. While it's technically not an out of town store, I can't see many people walking into Ware to shop when they park at Asda. The real problem is that margins for local town centre stores are very tight so anything that reduces footfall further could easily lead to more shop closures. Seems to me allowing Asda and to a lesser extent Sainsburys to build is taking quite a big risk. What has been the impact on footfall of Sainsburys in Hertford?
Re: Waitrose
Posted: Wed 03 Dec 2014 1:22 pm
by Steve
Scouter wrote:Steve wrote:Scouter wrote:I wonder if any consideration was given to the Hertford Waitrose when a large Sainsbury's was built within spitting distance, to go with the very large Waitrose and M & S convenience?
Again, missing the point. This is about the threat posed by
out-of-town stores to those already existing in town centres, and by extension, to town centres themselves.
Correct Van Hage is out of town but Tesco and Sainsbury's in Hertford are hardly town centre...As the Waitrose is.
Maybe we could agree on using the phrase "in-town " rather than "town centre", as distinct from "out-of-town".
Both Sainsbury's and Tesco [in Hertford] were subject to planning conditions that obliged them to provide connectivity with the town centre. In the case of Tesco, through Bluecoats, and in the case of Sainsbury's, via a new path from the store to Bull Plain. Both are well used.
Re: Waitrose
Posted: Wed 03 Dec 2014 4:32 pm
by The Masked Woler
Interesting that it's not "in the direction" of the district plan, so presumably if Waitrose applied to build one up near Wodson for the thousands of houses to be built up there they would allow it.
Re: Waitrose
Posted: Wed 03 Dec 2014 4:36 pm
by The Masked Woler
Ian wrote:Steve wrote:The Masked Woler wrote:This bit is bizarre
"the submission highlights high levels of impact on key town centre stores, particularly Tesco in Ware, Waitrose in Hertford and Sainsbury‟s in Hoddesdon. Indeed the ongoing viability of the Tesco and Sainsbury‟s stores could be undermined."
No mention of the Sainsburys in Hertford/Ware or ASDA (which they have recently given permission for) surely they will impact far more on Tesco than Waitrose - I will be very surprised if Ware Tesco survives. Also no mention of Hertford Tesco.
They also happily granted permission for the new Morrisons in Hoddesdon (which isn't mentioned either)
Is the ommission of all the stores for which they have recently given permission an admission that to do so rather shoots their reasoning down?
There's no mention of Sainsbury's in Hertford or Ware, or Asda in Ware, because they are not out-of-town stores. The comments are specifically about how an out-of-town store could potentially draw custom away from town centres. They've only mentioned stores which could be
particularly impacted, which doesn't mean that others no mentioned won't be.
Agreed about Sainsburys - just about, though I do wonder how many people go into Hertford when they shop at Sainsburys - but I'm far from convinced by Asda. While it's technically not an out of town store, I can't see many people walking into Ware to shop when they park at Asda. The real problem is that margins for local town centre stores are very tight so anything that reduces footfall further could easily lead to more shop closures. Seems to me allowing Asda and to a lesser extent Sainsburys to build is taking quite a big risk. What has been the impact on footfall of Sainsburys in Hertford?
Whenever I have been there there has been a steady stream along the footpath - more that you get from Tesco in my view.
Re: Waitrose
Posted: Fri 05 Dec 2014 5:01 pm
by New Boy
Another ridiculous planning decision for Ware. They seem to have a real anti-Waitrose agenda. In a free-market economy, why seek to protect Tesco in Ware. It's dire and doesn't deserve protection. And more than likely will morph into a Tesco Metro at some stage anyway.
Re: Waitrose
Posted: Wed 10 Dec 2014 11:55 am
by mb1
Mercury reports that Vahage/Waitrose have withdrawn the application to review and resubmit later on.
http://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/V ... story.html
Re: Waitrose
Posted: Wed 10 Dec 2014 12:33 pm
by The Masked Woler
Some seem to think that blocking this will force Waitrose to stay in Hertford - that could backfire spectacularly.
The Green Belt issue is bizarre given EHDC are planning to build on vast areas of green fields to the north of the town and this isn't even green but a current retail area.
The suggestion that Waitrose will compete with Tesco shows a complete failure to understand the respective customer bases of the two stores.