Ware Online Forum

Reply ID 21360

Update after the Ware Town Meeting at The Priory on 19th March I presented my plan as supplied by Thames Water to the council ,and one of the Council members has contacted Thames Water , Thames have confirmed that the main roadway sewer is not maintained or owned by them but is privately owned. So if anyone on this map and I sure else where in Ware has a problem with the drains in there road , they will be unable to get Herts Highways or Thames to assist with the problem. Why are we paying Thames via Three Valleys Water for this service if they don’t maintain the drains. I would advise everyone to check this out - especially if you want to sell your house as I know of people near me who have had problems due to this drain ownership issue .

Reply ID 21366

Where would one get this information/ maps for the rest of Ware?

Reply ID 21369

Do you have any ideas about how to get this situation sorted? I live in Trinity Rd which I think has the same problems, I would be happy to join forces to approach whoever is needed to get some action.

Reply ID 21373

Private sewers (ie, shared sewerage systems not maintained by Thames Water) and lateral drains (I don't know what they are!) are going to be transferred to the sewerage companies - DEFRA announced it in February, but they don't have a date for the transfer (they need to consult how to do it). Assuming these drains carry sewage I would guess they should be covered, so it might be worth waiting until the transfer is complete (unless the problem is unbearable). More details here: http://www.defra.gov.uk/environment/water/industry/sewers/index.htm

Reply ID 21421

Hi BrassdoorKnob - to get a map for your road just ring Thames Water 08457 200897 and ask them if they maintain the Rainwater sewer in your road and for a copy of the plan covering your road showing Rain and Foul water sewers. Hi Kate Darcy - Trinty road is one of the roads covered (or not) by Thames, Please contact Thames Water 08457 200897 and Hertfordshire Highways 01438 737320 and ask about Sewer Maitenance - also Contact your Local town councillor - . the last info I got back from Thames and East Herts Highways was that it was in the hands of lawyers (so we flood while they talk ). The more of us that complain the more chance something will be done - Especially as Local Elections are imminent Hi Stephen - My problem is rainwater not Sewerage (fortunately) I will keep an I on the Defra site to see if it helps us .

Reply ID 21432

This is ridiculous!! According to the map posted by Victor the majority of rainwater sewers in Ware are private! The map shows that all drains marked blue are private and those marked red are maintained by Thames Water. It would be interesting to see a complete map of Ware. I would guess that approx 80% of rainwater sewers in Ware are marked blue and are therefore private! (Rainwater drains being the big ones in the middle of the road, not the small ones near the kerb). This was not on the deeds of my house when I bought it. How can something like that suddenly become private overnight?

Reply ID 21433

This is the reply I just recieved from the local paper as I tried to get them involved to put pressure on |Thames and East Herts. I have removed the reporters and Papers name. If anyone knows someone who has just moved into this area it would be interesting to see if the searchs they had done found any mention of PRIVATELY owned sewers. and Mabel - That is exactly the question I asked - I am going to dig out my deeds now The fight continues.. Dear Mr Johnson, I have look into doing a story on the drains without the map (which we couldn't reproduce in the paper) and this is proving problematic too. I was hoping we could get a list of road names from Thames Water where the drains are private, but unfortunately they will not provide it. Their press office explained that they couldn't release such information to a news organisation under the Data Protection Act. For example, if the information being released in a news story led to the value of someone's property dropping while they were trying to sell, the homeowner could sue Thames Water for the loss apparently. Without this list, it would be difficult to update the stories we have already done and widen the interest to other residents. Sorry I couldn't be more help Regards

Reply ID 21435

But do you pay Thames Water to maintain the drains/sewers or to treat the **** once it eventually ends up in their sewer? I am sure I heard on the grapevine that once the water companies take ownership of the private sewers, then water rates will have to rise accordingly.

Reply ID 21436

Victor, you could apply to Thames Water as an individual under the Freedom Of Information Act.

Reply ID 21438

I am surprised more people aren't concerned by this. From what Victor is saying, if there is any problem with drains in this area, no-one will take responsibility for the repair. I've already heard that some homes are flooding whenever there is heavy rain because the drains are either blocked or broken. A long time ago - there was a problem with the drains in Scotts Road, The result was rainwater flushing sewer water down the road. This took a long time to get resolved as well because the companies failed to take responsibility. What I'm concerned about is how big a problem is this? Are there other areas of the town where the ownership of the drains is in doubt? Further more - it brings into question lots of other things that we assume are maintained by one company or another. The hole in the towpath for example opposite the Saracens. This has been there for over a year, as recently high-lighted by a local resident. The problem was who owns it when it needed to be fixed? I understand this has now been addressed and is due to be fixed, but, with the amount of increased taxes we pay, should the public have to wait for such a long time while these companies "pass the blame" and claim it's not their problem. If money had to be collected, they would step forward pretty quickly. Rant over.

Reply ID 21440

Good 'ol time sometimes ensures one doesn't have time to complain Craig. I keep meaning to ask EHDC for a council tax rebate due to the fact our roads/holes/drains have not been maintained yet our tax has gone up yet again for loss of services. Who's responsible I don't care - EHDC take my tax so I'll just have to get my .... in gear and send them a letter.

Reply ID 21441

Essentially, houses built before 1 October 1937 are served by public sewers, and those built after 1 October 1937 are served by private sewers. This is the anomaly the Government is addressing by making them all the responsibility of Thames Water in our case, at an estimated increase in the water rates of £3-£11 per household.

Reply ID 21442

So is this a national problem? FB

Reply ID 21444

Yes. And there must be a awful lot of private sewers given the number of houses built in the last 70 years.

Reply ID 21447

Has this always been a problem? My *impression* is that there were few problems say ten years ago and things are gradually getting worse - is there anything that this can be traced back to, for example privatization of water companies?

Reply ID 21449

quote:

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Originally posted by Stephen
Yes. And there must be a awful lot of private sewers given the number of houses built in the last 70 years.

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Reply ID 21476

I'd imagine this is becoming an increasing problem as the private sewers get older. Local geology would contribute too, especially clay soils that swell and shrink significantly as they get wet and then dry out, moving the pipes around as they do so. Privatisation of the water companies would have no bearing on it as they have never been responsible for private sewers. I don't know whether those properties served by public sewers pay more - but most of the sewerage rates are spent on treatment rather than getting the sewage to the works, so I'd assume any difference would be minor. I doubt it is a scam. Firms like Thames Water will be taking on an enormous and unmaintained asset, sight unseen. For £3-£11 a year you will be able to call them out whenever the sewers get blocked, rather than pay Dynarod however much they charge. When we lived in Enfield, our house dated from 1933 so was served by a public sewer. It ran down the alley next to our house and got blocked every 6 months or so due to a build-up of fat. We were the ones who had to call Thames every time as we were the first to notice the stench, but the drains served half a dozen houses and the blockage was probably being caused by families using a lot of fat in their cooking. Imagine what that would have cost us had it been private (they charge the people who call them out).

Reply ID 21478

Last time ours got blocked, me and my neighbour got the rods out ourselves. It never occurred to either of us to call either Thames Water, or Dynorod! FB

Reply ID 21480

The last guy who cleared our sewer told us he often got called out by those who'd tried with their own rods only to find the rods got sucked down the sewer as the blockage shifted and made matters worse!

Reply ID 21811

More likely the problem has increased because A: dryer summers are causing ground movement and damaging drains. B: more people have extended their homes, often over underground pipework and the extra weight can take it's toll. It's quite common for the sewer that runs through your property (normally back garden) to be your responsibility and costs of repairs is normally shared by all those "up stream" of the problem. The cost you pay the water company is the treatment of that waste when it gets to them. In fact residance can be charged fines and past costs for repairs to "their" pipe leakages if they allow sewerage to leak and cause a health risk.

Reply ID 22225

Sorry to harp on about this but - latest update I have from East Herts Highways is that it is still with the lawyers in Thames Water.When Thames took over the maintenance in 98 they unilaterally decided what areas were private and what were public , this without telling either East Herts or us as residents. I have now lodged a complaint via the Consumer Council for Water http://www.ccwater.org.uk/ about this If you have found out that you are in the effected area then please log a complaint as well. Speaking to East Herts Highways it appears that this problem is widespread in Ware and surrounding areas. The fight goes on .

Reply ID 25069

HI – Afraid I’m back again – Still no further forward but some residents of Beacon Road and Elm Road have just had to pay to get there Dirty water sewer unblocked as according to Thames and East Herts Highways the sewers are private. – Mind you on the plan I have from Thames Beacon and Elm don’t even have any sewers. So work that one out. We are going to see more and more of the residents paying unless someone can prove that Thames adopted the sewers on behalf of East Herts Highways

Reply ID 25070

I'd imagine as the home owner ultimately you are responsible for problems that occur on your land. Also laws exist to prosecute if you break environmental laws. For something not to be your responsibility, on your land, you'd need documented proof that somebody else had accepted responsibility. They would then need documented proof if they have delegated that away to another party. So if you have documented proof the East Herts or Thames water is responsible, that's all you need. It's for them to prove somebody else does. Failure to do that and it's their responsibility. Your plans not showing a sewer doesn't absolve you of responsibility. Although it may allow you to claim against your solicitor who acted during the original purchase if they didn't ensure the plans were correct. However it would be unreasonable to claim you were surprised to discover a sewer as you waste has to leave your premises somehow.

Reply ID 25075

Don't forget though that new/extended houses don't discharge rainwater from guttering into the sewers, but go to a soakaway usually in the garden somewhere and I wouldn't expect the water comapnies to be aware of this. The Council might be as it will be on the plans that are passed by building control. You have my sympathy Victor, it sounds like you're having a bad time - I hope you manage to get this sorted out soon.

Reply ID 25089

WELL I DONT BELIEVE IT I have a letter freom East Herts Highways saying that the sewers in Cozens Road Ware are adopted. I have asked TW to come and clean out the sewer we wait and see if anything happens extract from the email below between East Hearts Highways and Thames Water I confirm I have had a note from Waste Water GIS/ Technical Information relating to drains in the Cozens Road, Ware area which states that they consider the sewers in that area to be all adopted (pending sign off from TWU senior operations management). If anyone wants a copy of the email let me know and I will send a copy or I can put up on the website with the plan .

Reply ID 25091

There you go! nothing like a bit of documentaion to sort things out. Failing that I have some drain rods. have done ours a few times. Not the most pleasant job as it seems to block downstream of us. Still somebodies got to do it and the wife would have fainted I'm sure.

Reply ID 25278

When was the last time anyone saw one of those 'mobile hoovers' that used to suck all the leaves and cr(at)p out of the drains? I havent seen one in years (I guess shelved as 'not essential') surely this isnt helping the already stretched drainage in the South East. I'm sure the extra 500,000 homes they want to build will help though

Reply ID 25279

The west side of Ware has them around on a regular basis.

Reply ID 25297

We have them on Kingshill fairly regularly too...

Reply ID 25307

In the 20 years I've lived in Ware, I have once seen one going down New Road - about two/three months ago!

Reply ID 25313

quote:

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Originally posted by bats
When was the last time anyone saw one of those 'mobile hoovers' that used to suck all the leaves and cr(at)p out of the drains? I havent seen one in years (I guess shelved as 'not essential') surely this isnt helping the already stretched drainage in the South East. I'm sure the extra 500,000 homes they want to build will help though

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